In Conversation: Kat Ryals Interviewed by Lauren Hirshfield

Lauren Hirshfield: I thought it would be nice to start with the years leading up to your Rugs. We’ve talked together many times about how the lenticulars you made back then are a sort-of precursor in their process and material use. Can you share a bit about them and how they set the stage for the Rugs?

 

Kat Ryals: Well, I started making the lenticulars in grad school ten years ago as they were part of my thesis show. I was trained in photography beforehand, and in grad school wanted to move into a more sculptural practice while still finding ways to incorporate the camera. I wanted to make things physically with my hands, which I think stems from a long fascination with found objects. Even for my photography I would dig through thrift stores for costume items and props to dress my models and sets. So I was already thinking about ornamentation and design, how decoration reflects the culture it’s in, and how that relates to our human notion of power: how we decorate our bodies and our spaces, and what that projects back into the world.

 

Lauren: And that opened the door to the lenticulars.

 

Kat: Yes, and the lenticulars started centering my practice on speculative fiction and world building. I would build environments with heaps of salvaged items from Materials For The Arts and then photograph them. Lenticulars as an output for the photograph appealed to me because they look high-tech but the process is actually low-tech. I don't speak about the hierarchies of tech as much any more, but it definitely still plays a part in my work now. The lenticulars interested me as a means of taking an object and making an image out of it and then making it into an object again. So there was already that idea of translating something from being real, to being fake, and then back again.

 

Lauren: For as long as I've known you, what I’ve thought has been really core to the way that you think about making your work is that cycle. It’s a snake-eating-its-own-tail idea of optical illusion and special effects. You're consistently pushing the boundary of what medium you're working with in a way that reinforces your challenging of these systems of value that have been built into society.

 

Kat:  Exactly. It's questioning reality - a questioning of what is real and of how we place value within this reality that we've established. I’ve always had an interest in optical illusions as a way of pulling people in, and that thread has been carried forward for sure.

 

Lauren: Let’s get into the genesis of the Rugs. I remember when you told me your ideas for the first rug, I had an overwhelming aha moment of “oh wow, this really feels like the puzzle pieces have found their home”. What was the aha moment for you? How did you start to identify how they could be formatted in the way that we see the rugs now?

 

Kat: When I went on my short research trip in 2018 to France and saw the rug tapestries at Versailles I had an aha moment a bit. Having already translated other design objects into my installations - like chandeliers - I was already thinking what other objects of opulence I could draw inspiration from. I made that first one you mentioned in 2019 and showed it at SPRING/BREAK NY in 2020 with some of my lenticulars - including, actually, the laser cut one in the window vitrine at 5-50. I received so much good feedback from people during the fair, and realized the rug process could be a defining departure from everything I was doing previously. What remained though was again this tension between real and fake, high and low, the luxury and kitsch - these dichotomies that sort of encapsulate our struggles with desire and a global capitalistic system. And playing with how you perceive those statuses. But I largely frame it around my own experience as an American, and sometimes also around my upbringing in Arkansas and Louisiana. 

 

Lauren: Let’s talk about those dichotomies some more. You present a specific relationship between the history of design as well as the history of luxury objects and the choice of materials that you are transmuting into in the final product. The formal elements of the work are such a smart packaging for your heavily researched and intertwining concepts. That is definitely the tingly, a-ha part for me.

 

Kat:  I’m interested in co-opting the design aesthetics of historical European rugs, but then injecting them with things that we’d generally agree today is low value. The contrast of accessibility and what I'm making versus what was made in the past that was only available to certain people is also interesting to me.  The collages are handmade at the same scale as the rug print you see in the end so there are a lot of materials going into it. I’m constantly thrifting, receiving gifts from people, finding vintage items and bones on Ebay. The bones are the ultimate low value - they are literally waste.

At a glance people see the intricate pattern and think it’s fancy, but then you look closer and see the kitschy 80’s fabric and little dead crab legs and it reframes not only your perceived value scales, but our relationship to the parts of our daily lives that we would otherwise discard. And it re-injects value into these otherwise forgotten emblems of everyday.

 

Lauren: You seem to be creating a bridge for people between wealth and accessibility. Viewers also begin to understand the labor involved in the process the more they stay with the work.

 

Kat: Part of the wow factor comes from our desire to seek moments of sublime. I want to make something that really lures people in, and part of the magic in that allure is not always knowing the labor that goes into it. I think that's what's interesting about the process when talking about what makes it a high-value object. They have a lot of cultural currency embedded into them from all of the research and contemplation as well as the time to physically make them. I'm giving you permission to indulge and I think that’s part of the sublime moment too. 

 

Lauren: A word we haven't said yet that I know is really core to your practice is “spectacle”. It’s a key word that gives a window into why Las Vegas has become so much an inspiration and a jumping off point for the series as a whole. It’s a pinnacle locale of American spectacle, and we really see Vegas take center stage as this sort of Mount Olympus in the work at 5-50. How are all roads leading to Vegas this time around in the series?

 

Kat: Las Vegas is a huge inspiration because of how simultaneously fake and real it is and how it's designed to manipulate you. The experience of being there is so disorienting and I think is a truly honest experience of what it’s like to live in American culture. A ubiquitous design object in Vegas is the casino carpet and its all over banquet halls, conference centers, and wedding chapels too. So the content of each rug in my solo show is based on iconic locales of Las Vegas that almost anyone can go into. Where the historic castles with the opulent tapestries were only experienced by a few privileged people, Vegas is for everyone and anyone can feel like royalty for a day there. Sites like the steakhouse, strip club, spa, theater, tiki bars, the penthouse suite, the drive-thru wedding chapel - all of these classic sites of indulgence are represented.

 

Lauren: And how are reflecting those places back into each of the works? 

 

Kat: I use eye-catching colors and try to think about specific palettes and materials that can relate to each place. If I’m thinking about the Caesar’s Palace pool, I’m hunting for blues and greens; if it’s the spa, I’m looking for fabrics that read like marble tile or ceramic. It sometimes took a long time to collect enough for a complete rug. I knew the recipe, but I had to find all the ingredients.